sdi: Oil painting of the Heliconian Muse whispering inspiration to Hesiod. (Default)
[personal profile] sdi

Akhilles returns to the killing-fields of Troia. Apollon encourages prince Aineias to step up and fight him but Akhilles's armor, newly-forged by Hephaistos himself, is impervious to his blows. Akhilles is just about to kill Aineias when Poseidon spirits him away from battle. Akhilles raves (Iliad XX 344–352):

ὢ πόποι ἦ μέγα θαῦμα τόδ’ ὀφθαλμοῖσιν ὁρῶμαι:
ἔγχος μὲν τόδε κεῖται ἐπὶ χθονός, οὐδέ τι φῶτα
λεύσσω, τῷ ἐφέηκα κατακτάμεναι μενεαίνων.
ἦ ῥα καὶ Αἰνείας φίλος ἀθανάτοισι θεοῖσιν
ἦεν: ἀτάρ μιν ἔφην μὰψ αὔτως εὐχετάασθαι.
ἐρρέτω: οὔ οἱ θυμὸς ἐμεῦ ἔτι πειρηθῆναι
ἔσσεται, ὃς καὶ νῦν φύγεν ἄσμενος ἐκ θανάτοιο.
ἀλλ’ ἄγε δὴ Δαναοῖσι φιλοπτολέμοισι κελεύσας
τῶν ἄλλων Τρώων πειρήσομαι ἀντίος ἐλθών.

Here is how Samuel Butler translates it:

Alas! what marvel am I now beholding? Here is my spear upon the ground, but I see not him whom I meant to kill when I hurled it. Of a truth Aeneas also must be under heaven's protection, although I had thought his boasting was idle. Let him go hang; he will be in no mood to fight me further, seeing how narrowly he has missed being killed. I will now give my orders to the Danaans and attack some other of the Trojans.

This is hot garbage. It's slow, it's flat, and it conveys none of Akhilles's fury or personality. (His own best friend, Patroklos, called him "a dreadful man, who would be quick to blame even the innocent!") My favorite, W. H. D. Rouse's, is a little better but still not very good:

Confound it all, here's a miracle done before my eyes! There lies my spear on the ground, and not a trace can I see of the fellow I meant to kill! Aineias must have some friends in heaven. And I thought his boasting was all stuff and nonsense! Let him go to the devil. He won't have a mind to try me again after this happy escape from death! All right, I will round up our people and have a try for some other Trojans.

Rouse argued vehemently, and I agree, that Homer wasn't trying to be high literature: the Iliad was meant to be a rousing story told over beer. Sure, it contains dignified history and theology, but it was not, itself, meant to be dignified—it was meant to be exciting enough to buy the bard another day's meal and lodging. But I think Rouse dropped the ball, here.

Here's how I'd translate it:

What the fuck kind of magic is this!?
Here's my spear lying on the ground, but I can't
see the man I meant to kill with it.
So Aineias really is dear to the immortal gods!
I thought he was just bullshitting me.
Eh, fuck it: he won't have the guts to face me
again, happy to have cheated death once.
Come on, I'll rally the bloodthirsty Danaans
to go and try some other Troian face-to-face.

Compared to the others, it may look like I'm taking liberties, but it's nearly word-for-word...

(If you don't like his language, let me remind you we're talking about Akhilles and not, say, Diomedes or Hektor!)

Date: 2025-04-05 10:27 pm (UTC)
k_a_nitz: Modern Capitalism II (Default)
From: [personal profile] k_a_nitz
That definitely sounds more real!

Date: 2025-04-06 01:21 am (UTC)
jprussell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jprussell
Reminds me of Stanley Lombardo's approach, where he's a bit freer with how to translate the words due to a goal of translating the feel - always a risky approach, but there's something to be said for it when handled by someone knowledgeable enough to do it right.

(To be fair, my Greek is far enough beyond rusty that I'm not sure how direct your translation is, so my apologies if you achieved the vividness by the opposite tack of going as accurate word-for-word as possible).

It also reminds me of the scene in the Odyssey where Polyphemos picks up some of the companions and brains them against the wall of the cave. The passage describes it as "like picking up a sack of puppies and smashing it against a wall." Very gruesome, as was the description of the blinding of Polyphemos.

Cheers,
Jeff

Date: 2025-04-06 02:39 pm (UTC)
causticus: trees (Default)
From: [personal profile] causticus
Man, I really do like your translation, if even this is just a tiny snippet of what is possible for the entire work. I think it much better captures the spirit of a Bronze Age Collapse pirate tale, as opposed to using something like a haughty High Victorian style English. Also, I think your style be very fitting for a graphic novel version of the Iliad.

Honestly, I think a lot of problems with reading the classics in our current era is a problem of translation. And, that much can be done to make translations more relatable.

Date: 2025-04-06 02:52 pm (UTC)
thinking_turtle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thinking_turtle

There is a more obvious explanation, that Achilles was fighting air. The only place Achilles was fighting Trojan princes was in his imagination.

Date: 2025-04-07 06:32 am (UTC)
thinking_turtle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thinking_turtle

Thanks for your reply! I've heard men boast, but I've not seen men mysteriously disappear from beneath a spear. So I think it's unusual for Poseidon to intervene on the physical plane.

Edited Date: 2025-04-07 06:32 am (UTC)

Date: 2025-04-07 10:28 am (UTC)
thinking_turtle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thinking_turtle

Your remark that The Iliad was meant as "a rousing story told over beer" reminded me of Dio Chrysostom's 11th discourse. I find Dio totally convincing.

Now Poseidon is the god of Water, and he rescues Aeneas by splashing water on Achilles' face, waking him up.

Date: 2025-04-07 09:55 pm (UTC)
duskpeterson: The lowercased letters D and P, joined together (Default)
From: [personal profile] duskpeterson

I wish some publisher was reading this, so that the world could be gifted with your translation of The Iliad. :)

Date: 2025-04-07 10:51 pm (UTC)
duskpeterson: The lowercased letters D and P, joined together (Default)
From: [personal profile] duskpeterson

:)

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