That Pesky Deus Ex Machina
Aug. 4th, 2023 10:57 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
When the God saw the waggoner kneel,
Crying, "Hercules! Lift me my wheel
From the mud where 'tis stuck!"
He laughed—"No such luck;
Set your shoulder yourself to the wheel!"
THE GODS HELP THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES
(Walter Crane (tr.) and Edmund Evans (illust.), Baby's Own Æsop)
But it is important [...] to be clear about the reasons why Plotinus disliked [the Gnostics] so intensely and thought their influence so harmful. [...] They reject the only true way of salvation through wisdom and virtue, the slow patient study of truth and pursuit of perfection by men who respect the wisdom of the ancients and know their place in the universe. They claim to be a privileged caste of beings, in whom alone God is interested, and who are saved not by their own efforts but by some dramatic and arbitrary divine proceeding; and this, Plotinus says, leads to immorality.
(A. H. Armstrong, Introduction to Enneads II ix "Against the Gnostics")
We ourselves possess beauty when we are true to our own being; our ugliness is in going over to another order; our self-knowledge, that is to say, is our beauty; in self-ignorance we are ugly. Thus beauty is of the Divine and comes Thence only.
(Plotinus, Enneads V viii "On the Intelligible Beauty" §13, as translated by Stephen MacKenna)
Is it not, then, out of place for you, who are confident that there exists in you both the savior and that which is saved and the destroyer and that which is destroyed, [...] to yearn for the shadow of a leader as though you do not have the true leader within yourself?
(Porphyry to Marcella, as translated by Kathleen O'Brien Wicker)
Yes, gods and dæmons alike help us in that last and greatest task of overcoming death—but just like I always tell my daughter, "help" doesn't mean "doing it for you."
no subject
Date: 2023-08-05 10:13 am (UTC)Thanks for sharing!
It seems to me that you can interpret Christianity both ways. If you take a belief in a personal Jesus as the source of salvation, you're with Plotinus. If you take the Latin bible as the source of salvation, the source is unreadable to most people and so secret, and you end up with the Gnostics.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-05 11:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-08-06 10:28 am (UTC)Thanks for your reply. Now I wonder which part of my comment you disagree with. Is it the idea that a "personal Jesus" corresponds with Porphyry's "there exists in you both the savior"?
no subject
Date: 2023-08-06 11:16 am (UTC)Second, the Gnostics believed that one can only be freed by personal knowledge—gnosis—so the issue is more fundamental than mere Church gatekeeping. (The Gnostics felt that such gatekeeping was evil!) So you're lumping the Gnostics in with something they disagreed with.
Third, my post was specifically in argument against Christianity, and indeed all religions where one's salvation is external (whether that external thing is a personal Jesus or a church sacrament). So you're lumping me in with something I disagree with.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-06 11:52 am (UTC)Thanks again, it's interesting to learn how you interpret my comment! The idea of lumping people into categories they do not agree with was far from my mind. I was floating a theory in order to learn.
First, as I understand the term, a "personal Jesus" refers to the divine in yourself. So when Porphyry says "here exists in you both the savior", the savior part sounds like "personal Jesus". No Christian would say he is Jesus, yet many say Jesus is part of them, and Jesus talks to them.
Second, I just read a bit more about Gnosticism and I agree with your rebuttal. Gatekeeping and the source of salvation are separate issues.
Third, growing up in a protestant part of the Netherlands, Christianity teaches that salvation is achieved though hard work, thrift, praying and giving. Isn't that an internal source?
Points one and three depend on what Christianity is. It seems Christianity means different things to different people.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-06 09:01 pm (UTC)